Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs
Welcome to Powerful Women Rising, the no-nonsense, laugh-out-loud podcast for heart-centered female entrepreneurs ready to make an impact (and a profit) while staying true to themselves!
Forget cookie-cutter, one size fits all advice. Each episode provides customizable advice and strategies to help you grow and scale your business - from leveraging authentic connections to mastering the art of marketing without feeling like a salesy weirdo. Plus, you'll hear insightful interviews with experts who shed light on those sneaky blind spots in your businessand dish out practical, no-BS advice for making more money in a way that feels good.
Tune in and transform the way you do business – because when women rise together, the sky's the limit!
Powerful Women Rising - A Business Podcast for Female Entrepreneurs
How to Have Conversations (Even When It's Hard) w/Tucker Miller
Sometimes having a conversation is not as easy as it sounds.
If you've ever walked into a networking event where it seems like you're the ONLY one who doesn't know anyone, you know what I'm talking about.
If you've ever had to have a difficult conversation with a loved one, you know how challenging it can be.
If you've ever found yourself having a "coffee chat" with someone and it feels like pulling teeth to try to get them to share ANYTHING about themselves, you get it.
In today's episode of the Powerful Women Rising podcast, I had the honor if interviewing Tucker Miller, the brilliant mind behind the book "The First Four Words - A Fresh Approach to Starting Conversations with Ease and Confidence."
Her unique insights unravel the complex web of conversations, teaching us not only how to start them but also how to nurture them into meaningful exchanges that can profoundly impact our lives and businesses.
This episode is a must-listen for those eager to shed self-doubt, embrace authenticity, and transform their approach to conversations, both professionally and personally. You'll gain invaluable strategies to help you shift your communication style and make your voice heard with more confidence and ease.
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Our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event is the perfect place to practice having conversations with other amazing female business owners just like you! https://powerfulwomenrising.com/events
For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community here: https://powerfulwomenrising.com/community/
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To connect with Tucker Miller and learn more:
www.jtuckermiller.com
www.onwardleadership.com
Welcome to Powerful Women Rising, the podcast where we ditch the rulebook and build businesses with authenticity, integrity and a whole lot of fun. Join host Melissa Snow, business relationship strategist and founder of the Powerful Women Rising community, as she interviews top experts and shares candid insights on business strategy, marketing, mindset and more. Let's get real, get inspired and rise together. This is Powerful Women Rising.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Powerful Women Rising podcast. I'm your host, melissa Snow, and I am super excited for today's episode. I have to tell you first before we dive in. I have been sitting here all day batching podcasts and my dogs are so over it and they are just getting like increasingly annoying by the second.
Speaker 2:There is a lot of barking happening. There is a lot of very loud chewing on the bone happening next to me. There is that annoying thing that they do that's kind of cute but also annoying where they come and like bonk your elbow with their nose, where they're like hi, I'm done with you working on the computer now, and so we're just going to try to get through this the best that we can, and then maybe we're going to go on a walk, but maybe not, because it's really cold and it's snowing. So that's what's happening in my neck of the woods. Let's talk about how I got today's guest on the podcast. Today I'm interviewing Tucker Miller and she is the author of a book called the First Four Words and if you have been listening to me for a while, or even if you remember me back in the olden days of the Love Starts here podcast, when I was a dating and relationship coach, I've gotten some really cool guests on the podcast, people that I never thought I would get on the podcast, and part of how I've done this is just reaching out to random people on Instagram and being like hi, I have a podcast, do you want to be on it?
Speaker 2:And most of the time they don't respond, like when I was a dating coach. I sent a DM to Jennifer Lopez and I was like, hey, you probably need a dating coach and also, do you want to be on my podcast? And she never responded to me, which I still find very strange. But I did get responses from a lot of other people. I had several people from reality shows that were based on dating and marriage as guests on that podcast, and I've had some really awesome guests on this podcast as well who I found the same way, and Tucker Miller is one of them, which is why I'm so excited for this episode.
Speaker 2:So she wrote this book, the First Four Words, a Fresh Approach to Starting Conversations with Ease and Confidence. And I was drawn to this book because I know that having conversations does not come as easily for some people as it does for others, and it sounds kind of weird to be like why do you need to help me have a conversation? But if you've ever tried to start a conversation at a networking event where you're feeling very awkward and you don't know anyone, you might understand why this book needed to be written. You might also understand why this book needed to be written if you've ever had to have a hard conversation that you really didn't want to have but knew that you needed to have. Even if you have had a one-on-one or a connect with someone that you met, maybe in a networking environment, and they wanted to get to know you better, and then you've spent 30 minutes just listening to them talk about themselves and you never got to say anything about yourself. Or, on the opposite end, if you have had one of those coffee chats where getting them to say anything is like pulling teeth and you're like this is so awkward, get me out of here. Conversations are not as easy as they may seem, and so I was really interested to learn what she was sharing in this book about how to start conversations with ease and confidence and how to have conversations even when they're difficult. She also talks about ways that we get in our own way when it comes to having conversations and some of the excuses that we make to avoid having these conversations, and I was just fascinated by the whole thing. So I reached out to Tucker. I was like hey, loved your book. Do you want to be on my podcast? Fully expecting not to get a response. And then she was like yes, I would love to, and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:So this is my interview with Tucker Miller. She is the president of Onward Leadership, she is a executive coach, she is a speaker, she is an author. Obviously, she is a former attorney, and now she works mostly with business leaders and corporate executives, particularly women, and specializes in helping people get out of their own way and start conversations that are brimming with possibility. I am excited for you to listen to this episode and to join me over on Instagram and share your takeaways. If you're not already following me, go follow at Powerful Women Rising, because I would love to hear how you've applied some of the things that Tucker shares in this conversation and how you are going to use it to change the conversations that you are having in your own life and your own business. All right, without further ado, here's my interview with Tucker Miller. Hello, tucker, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. I've been looking forward to talking with you today, Melissa.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm looking forward to talking to you too. I loved what you said before we started recording about how nice it is to talk to a real person. I'm all about that.
Speaker 3:Even if it's two-dimensional. I mean a face, eyes, a kitty it's very fun, so thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. So we? I am super excited for today's conversation, but before we dive in, tell everybody a little bit about you and about what you do.
Speaker 3:Sure, my name is Chakra Miller and I have a coaching business, so I do executive coaching. I'm also a speaker and I facilitate workshops, particularly to help advanced women leaders, and what surprises a lot of people is that must mean I work only with women. But if you want to advance women leaders, you're going to spend about half your time working with men their leaders so I get to work with both and it is my pleasure to do that, and I focus on helping people discover their personal leadership brand and expand their impact so that they can get more of whatever it is they want Promotion, influence, impact, whatever. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:So you recently wrote a book called the First Four Words. That is about starting and having conversations. So how does that kind of relate to what you were just talking about in terms of what you do with women leaders and leadership and that kind of stuff?
Speaker 3:You know I love that question and when you think about what's the more that I want in my life and it may not be, you know, a tangible more but I want more impact, more meaning, more significance, and I usually work with senior leaders who are looking at the impact that they want to have or the legacy that they want to leave and to get more. You have to engage in the conversation. That starts with what is important to you and where's the impact that you want to have. And so, as I was working with so many of my clients, we would talk about the conversations that they could have, that they should have, that they might have, and there'd be a lot of acknowledgement and agreement. And so, when we'd make the commitment to have the conversation and they were to report back, we'd come back together and say how did it go? And what I found out time and time again is not only did it not go, the reason they gave me was that they just didn't know what to say. And you have to recognize these are senior leaders, well-educated, highly accomplished people who are telling me to my face I didn't know the words to say to what it was specifically start the conversation and when they weren't sure or confident. They just didn't have the conversation. They walked away. They hoped it would go away, maybe it would solve itself, but if that were true, they wouldn't have recognized the need to have the conversation to begin with.
Speaker 3:So the thing that I was thinking a lot about is how to solve that problem for my clients, because it wasn't that they didn't know what to say, they were afraid of the impact. They were afraid they'd do it wrong, that it would get worse. Someone just told me recently I just didn't have the time for the conflict, so I didn't make time for the conversation, and I think that's a very normal reaction, and yet it was the barrier to people having more of what they wanted in their life. So how do you solve that problem? That's how this book came to be. Is what's a way to get people off the couch, where they're comfortable and safe, and into the conversation? And so I started thinking about what is the minimum viable product associated with a meaningful conversation. And that got me listening. I started writing down things that I heard, things that people said, and I was asking myself is there perhaps a sweet spot of the smallest amount that would successfully engage people in the next part of the conversation. And you know what? What I found this is my experience four words was just enough to get it going and once started, people were eager to have the conversation. So that seemed to be a game changer.
Speaker 3:So I started using it a lot of my practice and I would ask people when they would tell me I don't know what to say, I would say I didn't tell you this in my background, by the way, I used to be a trial attorney, so I like to use a lot of Socratic dialogue. So I would say if you did know how to start the conversation and you could do it in as few as four words, yes, what would you say? That's the gamification that gets everybody sort of excited about. Well, and then they would know what to say. And then I say let's go find out Now.
Speaker 3:Truth be told, I think some people went and said what we came up with, just to prove me wrong. That's okay. I got them off the couch and what they consistently came back with regardless of what their motivation was to go try out the four words is that they started having the conversations that they had previously been walking away from or avoiding. So I thought there might be a book in that. It might be a problem that other people were having and maybe that would be helpful. So that started that process.
Speaker 2:Turns out, you were right, there was a book in it, a great book. There was a book in it. Yeah, what I think is so interesting about this topic? I feel like we could make this into like a four-part series, but when we talk about having conversations, there's so many different types of conversations and reasons that each type is difficult and they're not all the same, right, like, sometimes we think about conversations like having the hard conversation, like talking to your parents about, like maybe it's time for you to move into an assisted living facility, right, or something like that.
Speaker 2:There are the conversations that you are concerned are going to turn into conflict.
Speaker 2:And then there are the conversations that I get asked about a lot when I teach and train about how to network, which is like the small talk conversations.
Speaker 2:Right, like, I don't even know how to talk to people, and a lot of times for people, it's they know how to have small talk but they don't want to because they don't like small talk or they just don't really know how to do it and it's very uncomfortable. So they're not out there meeting people, they're not talking about their business, they're not growing their network, and I think that a lot of the things that you talk about in your book are applicable to all of these conversations. Like one of the things that you say in your book is most conversations fail because they never happen. And I think that's true with both kinds right, like I have been the person that goes to a networking event and just like sits in the corner with the two people I came with because they're the people I know, and then I go home and I'm like, well, I know it worked so and so clearly those were some failed conversations and some missed opportunities because the conversation never started, even if we're talking about it on just that very like basic level.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I think that was one of the surprises that came up as I was writing the book is there were so many more conversations than the ones I was initially trying to resolve with my clients and my clients. You know we're talking about leadership, but life and leadership show up in all variations of how we address the challenges that we face, whether it's with our families or our co-workers or teammates or whatever. So there are chapters in the book as it evolved about how to give encouragement, how to respond to someone who's going through grief or a setback or a hardship, how to have those family conversations. I'm getting chills right now because I just had one with my dad. That was really difficult but so meaningful and so timely.
Speaker 3:To offer that kind of support at a key time, and it's such an interesting challenge is to engage in some of these conversations where now, where I was the child, I may be more the parent. And it's a different not different vocabulary, but a different cadence of interaction and engagement that this idea around the first four words is really intended to be a strategy or concept. And I loved how you brought up networking, because I find a lot of people are challenged by networking too, and they usually will say, after getting a big job or getting some opportunity, they wish they would have networked a lot sooner and more consistently, and it's such a great leadership and business skill. So the idea of the four words is not just to come up with four words that work. In fact, several people have said to me what are the four words? What?
Speaker 2:are the four words. I'm sure people listening were waiting for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like that book the One Thing, what is it? The one thing, and it's for everyone to determine, but it's situational and it's more of a strategy when you start thinking about it. I have lots of examples of forward phrases that could be used, but it's a strategy. So, with networking, you think about what are four or five conversation starters that I could have in my hip pocket and it could be as simple as four words. But here's the deal If it's five or six, it's okay. You're just trying to get into the conversation.
Speaker 3:But I think one of the things that I see, particularly with women leaders and I just had someone report back to me about this she said I say too much. When I get nervous or uncertain, I start talking too much, and I think we do that at networking. We either, you know, stay by the wall and talk to the people we came with, or we're just and you see those people expanding so much because of their nervousness. But what's the strategy I could bring? That would be just enough to get things started, to ask the question. So it's one of the things that I love in a networking. I'll just give you. You'll probably have a million tips because you teach on this. But I'll give you one that always surprises me.
Speaker 3:If you look to ask the question about what's unique about your business, you know there's an easy question I didn't even count how many words it was. But if you look for the thing that is often unique, that someone else thinks they don't have in common with someone else, you quickly discover all manner of commonalities. It happens every time. If we look at the thing that makes us stand out or stand alone or feel awkward or different, we find out we have immediate connection with the other people around us. So I like that category of questions. That kind of you know, lowers the bar and the discomfort because you're giving permission for people to really express what makes them feel kind of unique. You're not alone in it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question, and I love that question too, because one of the things that I always talk about is like we don't want to do the elevator pitch or the 30 second commercial, like those are. That's not what we're doing anymore, we're networking. I say we're networking like humans, not like salesy weirdos, and that's, there's these list of questions. It's like so what do you do? When did you start your business? Oh, how'd you get into that? Oh, that's really interesting and like nobody is actually really interested. But that's what we go to Cause, that's what we know, that's what we can think of, right? And so I love that question about what's unique about your business, because it's not. We're not like diving deep, it's not like tell me the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you in your life, but it's enough to be able to let them show you who they are as a human, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's provocative, and the best thing is, the thing they come back with probably won't sound like the white noise that we all expect, just like what you were describing. Here's my elevator describing. Here's my elevator speech. Here's my thing. We just can't even hear it anymore. But they'll say something about. Well, I used to live in Sausalito, you did, my grandmother lived there. I mean, time and time again, there's always some surprising connection or the person next to you will overhear it and they'll be in the conversation and it just is enough to make it memorable, but also for people to feel seen and not just a speech.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, not just robots answering the same question over and over.
Speaker 3:Here we go again. Here's my business card Yep.
Speaker 2:So, when it comes to difficult conversations or even just uncomfortable conversations because I think we encounter those in our personal life Everyone does but we also encounter them in entrepreneurship right, we have someone who doesn't deliver what they said they were going to deliver, or someone who is upset with us because they think that we didn't deliver what we were supposed to deliver, or all manner of conversations that can be uncomfortable or difficult to have. Why do you think we've touched on them a little bit, but what are some of the reasons that you see most often that people avoid conversations that they probably know that they should be having?
Speaker 3:I think I can boil it down to one reason, and it's the story they tell themselves to make them feel like it's okay to walk away. And there are a lot of different stories out there. I hear a lot of the versions of the stories, but you know, the last time I talked to my ex-wife it went terribly. So let's never do that again, even though I might be on the third wife this time, because I had that experience that tells me I won't do it.
Speaker 3:So we bring our past experience as kind of a limitation, the fear that you're gonna mess it up or say something worse. Or the last time you tried this, it just didn't get to the result that you wanted, and you know we're always encouraged in other aspects, particularly a business life, keep failing forward. There's something about this interpersonal dynamic where the stakes feel a little bit higher for people and it's harder to fail forward when it didn't go so well the last time. And so everyone brings that story and may apply it to situations that are not even relevant to the past story, but the emotion and the fear and hesitancy is there. So can I share a story with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would love it.
Speaker 3:This was one of my clients and she had a new boss and she'd had this new boss for all of two weeks. And she'd had this new boss for all of two weeks and she told me when she got onto the call we're meeting two-dimensionally in all fashions. So she said you know, I made my new boss really mad this week. I said you did, and this is someone who's very delightful, very easygoing, so at first it was a little bit provocative and I said you made her mad. And she said yes. I said what did you do to make her mad? And she said well, I said something at a meeting. I said okay, and she said well, she didn't like it very much. I said did she say that she didn't like it? And my client said no, but I saw her face, said no, but I saw her face. Her face wasn't good. I know she was mad and I said well, is it possible that she had something at lunch that just wasn't agreeing with her? Well, maybe, but I don't think. So I'm pretty sure she was mad at what I said. I said let me get this straight. Here's the lawyer in me again, pretty sure she was mad at what I said. I said let me get this straight. Here's the lawyer in me again. You've known this boss for an entire two weeks. Yes, and you've told me previously that you only have an opportunity to see her maybe once or twice a week, kind of in passing, outside of meetings. Yes, and you're telling me now that you're an expert on her facial expressions and you know exactly what she's thinking. Maybe not. I said do you think it might be worth having a conversation with her so that you can be more strategically aligned and understand if there really was a conflict? And she said yeah, but I don't know what to say. So we problem solved that and she reported back. The next time I met with her she said you know, I did check it out and she wasn't upset with me at all. But if she hadn't checked it out, that would have informed a lot of her ongoing behaviors with her boss, because she started to feel herself already shutting down and pulling away so that she didn't alienate herself with her boss. And the irony was it was not checking it out that was going to cause her to feel alienated. So those stories are always worth asking is it really true? Why do I think it's true and what else might be true?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's really a good point, especially for people like me who like to avoid conflict and not even like conflict, like we're all yelling at each other, but like anything that may even remotely look like conflict. I'm not interested in that one bit Better than I used to be, but it's an interesting point to bring up that we don't have the conversation because we don't want to have conflict, but sometimes the alternative is we're having a conflict that the other person doesn't even know about because I've created it all in my mind and I don't know that because I haven't had a conversation about it.
Speaker 3:I found that as a newly married person, and that was decades ago. But when I was newly married I found that unwittingly I kept stepping into some other previous partner's script and it would just trigger a reaction that I could not really understand that response. And so it took some time to kind of unpack it a little bit and say, well, what's going on here? Because my intention was, but I want to be accountable for creating a different reaction. I just also want to understand that reaction so that basically I can avoid that landmine in the future. But it was a landmine that was affecting both of us. It was very much worth unpacking. So I think that does happen, that people walk around our listeners, our recipients in the conversation, have their own stories that may get in the way of their own hearing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's important to note too that I mean we are definitely moving into a world, more than ever, where people are recognizing neurodivergence and we understand that not everyone's brain works the same way as ours. Not everyone has conversations the same way, not everyone makes eye contact the same way, and so I think that's something important to note too. I think there's a lot of times that people will walk away from conversations or meeting thinking like God, he was really rude the whole time I was talking. He didn't even look at me or whatever.
Speaker 2:That was a weird interaction or he's strange or whatever it is, and it's important to recognize too, like I can so relate to your client's boss, because everyone always thinks I'm mad, and I'm always like that's just my face, like this is just how my face looks. I'm either laughing or I look like I hate you, like there's no in between, and so I appreciate it when people are like are you mad? I'm like no, this is just my face. This has been. My people have been asking me if I'm mad since like fifth grade, and so I think that's also an important point is like to be able to check it out with people, and and not just assume the worst too.
Speaker 3:That's absolutely true, and I think, particularly with women leaders that I work with they're they're more apt to go inward and blame themselves for creating something.
Speaker 3:I see that much more often. This is anecdotal, I don't have the science behind it, but women tend to go to blaming themselves that I said something wrong, I did something wrong, I under whatever. And that is such a powerful thing to really explore, you know, is that really true? Going back to those questions, how do I know that it's true, and what risk am I willing to take? Even if it's just deciding to tell myself a new story in my head? That's a risk to go out of my normal way of thinking. But maybe the risk I'm willing to take to explore that and test that theory out is to engage in the conversation, because just sitting in the funk of the story underserves the individual but everybody else around them. I mean you think about that client story that I told you. She was a very high level leader who had a key responsibility for their research and development, and her getting smaller is the last thing that anybody wanted for her. They want more of her, not less.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a great point. So for people who are listening to this and they want to get more confident in having those uncomfortable conversations but they're not really sure where to start, Do you have some tips for them of like even just little things that they could start doing now that would help them feel more comfortable with that?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So one thing right now I got a million of them, but I'm going to try and pick two or three. So one thing is to start jotting down a few of the things that you're hearing, that you're listing. How are other people engaging? What are they doing? Just notice what's working, because we are so naturally wired as humans to look at the fail, the what's not working, the thing that set everybody off the TikTok that got everybody all mad and viral, but to really begin to focus on what is working, because that starts to rewire our thinking about possibility. So that's key, I think, is just pencil and paper. What are you noticing? What's working really, really well? What are you even saying that's working really well, and I think that's a great place to start. The other place I love when you're learning something new that might be uncomfortable try it out first with the people who love you the most. And you know you mentioned that this concept of the first four words would work in a variety of situations. So why not start it at home and use it with your kids, with your parents, with your spouse? So I had one client who spoke to me early on in putting this together and we were talking about the concept, and she said four words, huh, I'm from New York City and I'm a solid one or two word response person. I said okay, how's that working for you? And she said well, not very well. In fact, in my relationship with my husband we're constantly kind of bickering. He'll ask me a question, I give him the answer yes, no, no way, you know, she's very direct with him and then he keeps asking more questions. And I said do you think it's possible that he's not hearing enough context in your response, either in the tone or in enough acknowledgement of what he said, that he's confident that he was understood and that you were really reaching agreement? She said well, it's possible. She said he's Midwestern, so I'm not going to go as far as he might be inclined to go himself, but I'm willing to try this. So when we got back together again, I said what have you noticed? And she said you know what? I started counting. When I would, I'd say yes, that's a good idea. Yes, I'd really like to. She started doing that and she said as soon as she put a few more words there it kind of softened the tone and he was connecting with her. They started getting along better. And I said, now that you've seen that, can you level that up in some of the work that you're doing, you know, with other clients and stuff? And she said, yeah, I can't. So those would be two key tips that I would ask people to think about trying out. Yeah, that's really good. I'm going to throw in networking too, because you're focused on that and I hear this time and time again. I should have been networking a lot sooner.
Speaker 3:So why not look at networking as a way to kind of refine this? But I think too often when we think about networking it's the big networking event. But it could be just when I go to coffee with somebody that I don't know very well. I just had someone I barely met come over to my house for a couple hours yesterday so that we could work at my dining room table and work on some business ideas, and it was fantastic. I said it could be kind of weird, we don't know each other very well, but are you willing to try it? And he said yeah, and we had a great conversation. I gave him some coffee and that's all it took and we were networking easily. So it's just thinking of what's the smallest group, the fewest words and the smallest group that you would feel comfortable with to start to master those skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, networking is a great way to practice too, because there are so many networking groups, there's so many networking events, there's things online, there's things in person, and so if you go to one and you're like, wow, I was completely weird and I said a bunch of weird stuff number one, probably no one's gonna remember next month. But number two, you don't ever have to go back there again. I always tell people I'm like if you're super uncomfortable networking, start with the virtual meetings, because if you're on a virtual thing and you're like I'm so uncomfortable, this is so awkward, like, oh no, my computer, my internet's going out.
Speaker 3:Sorry, bye, you can't do that in real life. My dog just ran off with the neighbor's cat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gotta go, gotta go right now.
Speaker 3:Gotta go, yeah, and it'll probably never happen. It's just the things that we say to get us into it. And that's what I see time and time again is, once people start the conversation, everyone else is so ready for a conversation. I think this is, you know, one of those post COVID things like we may be a little bit awkward and hesitant, but we're hungry for connection. This is such a great time for it, and I know this is counterintuitive for a lot of people about talking to people that sit next to you on an airplane, because you know who knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 3:But I will say you know, sometimes and I have some examples in my book I've just met the most amazing people. I've met what turned out to be clients by something as simple as oh, I read that book, or I really enjoyed that book, did you enjoy it? Simple as, oh, I read that book, or I really enjoyed that book, did you enjoy it? And then we would have this amazing conversation and we never had to see each other again unless we chose to. So it's easy. And bring your eye mask. If you need to shut it down, you just put your eye mask on, and that's a signal everybody understands. We certainly hope so.
Speaker 2:So if people want to check out your book which I highly recommend, it's great or they just want to know more about you, what you do, stay connected with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 3:Two websites. You can go to either one or both, so one is for my coaching business. That's onwardleadershipcom. You can contact me there. I'd love it if people would subscribe and we could stay in touch. I also have a author and speaking website is jtuckermillercom, and the book is for sale at all the places online where you might buy a book, but that includes Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and it's also available through Goodreads, and I would love some reviews if anyone has an opportunity to take a look at the book and if they enjoyed it. Yeah, absolutely. If you don't enjoy it, I'll accept those reviews as well, but I think you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 2:But I'd really rather have the others. I'd really rather not.
Speaker 3:But you know, let's be fair.
Speaker 2:Awesome. I will put the links for both those websites in the show notes so people can reach out and connect with you and check out the book. And thank you so much for coming to be a guest on the podcast. It was a great conversation. Great conversation about conversations.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
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